Tuesday, August 26, 2008

How HR 6562 got hijacked

This is really very simple folks. Below is the text of a fax sent to Congressman Filner by a very interesting group. Blue Water Navy, Fleet Marines, Coast Guard, Blue Sky Air Force, and Thailand-Laos-Cambodia Veterans should take a good look at the signatures under the document. This document persuaded Filner to drop HR 6562, which you have been working very hard to get passed in this term, and stood a good chance of doing, in favor of a much more complicated bill that will be introduced sometime next year, and face many committee hearings, and a very long process, if it gets passed at all.

HR 6562 was designed to right a wrong by the VA: the halt of benefits that were given to the Veterans who served in the above mentioned areas. Filner wanted to restore that eligibility for all those Veterans. Now they must wait 1-2 years, perhaps longer, instead of seeing their claims processed next year.

Here is the complete text of what this group, who operated in secret, convinced Filner to include. [We have edited it lightly to remove some extraneous code]. Note the signers and the section in bold.

Honorable Bob Filner this date of August 20, 2008

A Joint Request for Modification to H.R. 6562, "The Agent Orange Equity Act"

in Coordination with Blue Water Navy (BWN/VVA) and

Herbicide Exposure Legislative Proposal & Promotion Project (HELPPP)

Request for Inclusion #1: We respectfully request that H.R. 6562 be modified to add in the appropriate sections, subsections, and paragraphs the following language to § 1116:

"including the inland waterways, ports, and harbors of the Republic, the waters offshore of the Republic, and the airspace above the Republic"

The inclusion of "ports and harbors" as written above establishes the fact that these areas are to be considered part of the inland waterway system, and not as part of the "waters offshore." - John Rossie, Executive Director, BWNVVA

Request for Inclusion #2. We respectfully request that H.R. 6562 be modified to add in the appropriate sections, subsections, and paragraphs the following language to § 1116:

"including the inland waterways, ports, and harbors of the Republic, the waters offshore of the Republic, and the airspace above the Republic, and in neighboring countries including Thailand, Laos, and Cambodia, and other locations including those in paragraphs (A), (B), and (C) or received the Vietnam Service Medal, the Vietnam Campaign Medal, the Armed Forces Expeditionary Campaign Medal for Vietnam, or served in combat or direct support of combat operations (alternative phrase "served in a direct combat support role"); during the period beginning on January 9, 1962, and ending on May 7, 1975; and:
(A) Guam, the Philippines, Taiwan, Okinawa, Panama,
(B) Johnston Island during the period between April 1972 and September 1977,
(C) Locations listed in "The History of the US Department of Defense Programs for the Testing, Evaluation, and Storage of Tactical Herbicides", December 2006, by Alvin Young for the Office of the Under Secretary of Defense and updated as defined above.
i. In adjudication of claims listed in (A) (B) and (C) above where records are presumed lost, destroyed, or unavailable, or non-existent, the Secretary's obligation to explain his decisions and to consider the benefit of doubt rule is heightened, and
ii. The Secretary must presume the veteran was exposed during such service to herbicide agents and any other chemical compound in an herbicide agent, unless there is affirmative evidence to establish that the veteran was not exposed to any such agent during that service.

Request for Inclusion #3. We respectfully request that H.R. 6562 be modified to add the appropriate sections, subsections, and paragraphs language taken directly from H.R. 5892, Section 111 et al. to § 1116 except as modified:

SEC. 111. TREATMENT OF CLAIMS UPON DEATH OF CLAIMANT.

(a) Treatment of Beneficiary of Veteran's Accrued Benefits as Claimant for Purposes of Incomplete Claims Upon Death of Veteran - Chapter 51 of title 38, United States Code, is amended by inserting after section 5121 the following new section:

`Sec. 5121A. Substitution in case of death of claimant'

`(a) Substitution- If a veteran who is a claimant dies while a claim for any benefit under a law administered by the Secretary, or an appeal of a decision with respect to such a claim, is pending and awaiting adjudication, the person who would receive any accrued benefits due to the veteran under section 5121(a)(2) of this title shall be treated as the claimant for the purposes of processing the claim to completion, except that such person may only submit new evidence in support of the claim during the one-year period beginning on the date of the death of the veteran.รข€™ (We ask that a review of Nehmer take place to insure those requirements are met; i.e. that there be no contradiction to the Court rulings and decisions of that case as it applies to section 5121 of title 38 including 38 CFR 3.100.)

`(b) Limitation- Only one person may be treated as the claimant under subsection (a).'

`(c) Designation of Third Party- If the person who would be eligible to be treated as the claimant under subsection (a) certifies to the Secretary that the person does not want to be treated as the claimant for such purposes, such person may designate the person who would receive the benefits under section 5121(a)(2) upon the death of the person who would otherwise be treated as the claimant under subsection (a) to be treated as the claimant for the purposes of processing the claim to completion.'.

"(b) Clerical Amendment- The table of sections at the beginning of such chapter is amended by inserting after the item relating to section 5121 the following new item:"

`5121A. Death of claimant."

"(c) Effective Date- The amendments made by this section shall apply with respect to the claim of any veteran who dies on or after the date of the effective date of this Act."

Requests #2 and #3 are submitted as a consensus opinion of BWN/VVA and HELPPP to clearly specify those locations where veterans were exposed to herbicides (as defined by the law) and to ensure that widows of veterans who have fallen victim to presumed diseases are provided equitable treatment and the same rights afforded their deceased spouses. It is critical to this legislation. - Blue Water Navy/Vietnam Veterans of America and the Herbicide Exposure Legislative Proposal & Promotion Project.

Request for Inclusion #4. We respectfully request that H.R. 6562 be modified to strike from the appropriate legal references in the legislation or the authorization for the concession of exposure to herbicides in areas near the DMZ in Korea and adding:

strike "April 1968, and ending July 1969" and replace with "September 1, 1967, and ending August 31, 1971." for the DMZ in Korea.

The inclusion of "September 1, 1967 and ending on August 31, 1971" as written above establishes the time frames Congress considered for inclusion in H.R. 972- The Civilian Agent Orange Act of 2007; and is already part of M21-1MR, Part IV, Subpart ii, Chapter 2, Section C, paragraph 10 l. - Charles Wayne Kelley, SP5, 2nd Battalion 94th Artillery
Request for Inclusion #5. We respectfully request that the following language be inserted into appropriate legislation as it applies to the activities of federal departments in compliance with the VCAA.

Sec. 5106. Furnishing of information by other agencies
The head of any Federal department or agency shall provide such information to the Secretary and other responsible organizations (JSRRC) as becomes available for any reason or that the Secretary may request for purposes of determining eligibility for or amount of benefits, or verifying other information with respect thereto.

The reference to the VCAA is incorporated to strengthen the access to, release of, and dissemination to appropriate agencies and organizations specifically created to assist veterans in obtaining information pertinent to successfully validating their claim. - Kurt Priessman, "Project CHECO: Base Defense in Thailand", HELPPP.

Submitted by the Undersigned:

Name Position/Organization Residence
Mr. John R. Rossie Executive Director, BWN/VVA Littleton, CO

Mr. Walter Ward Secretary, BWN/VVA Washington, DC

Mr. Jeff Comerchero Council Member, City of Temecula California Temecula, CA
Thailand Veteran

Mr. John C. C. Vincent Owner, PTSD Support Group (8336 US Members) Canada

Mr. Michael A. Moynihan President, Agent Orange Diabetic Victims (AODV) Kimball, MI

Mr. Gary J. Chenett National Director, Order of the Silver Rose Grand Blant, MI

Mr. Kurt Priessman MSgt, USAF (Ret), 70% Disabled AO Victim Vernon, TX
Thailand & Okinawa (˜71-˜76), Korea (˜77-˜81) Veteran
Vietnam Dog Handler's Association (VDHA)
Thailand Vietnam Vets for Equal Treatment (TVVET)
Owner, HELPPP, The Bottom Line

Mrs. Sheila Snyder Home of the Agent Orange "Quilt of Tears" Davenport, FL
President, AO Victims & Widows Support Network, Inc

Mrs. Marilyn Oliver Director, Order of the Silver Rose Toledo, OH
Thailand Vietnam Vets for Equal Treatment (TVVET)
Co-owner, HELPPP

Mr. Jerrel Cook Project 112/SHAD Veteran and Host SVR Radio Joplin, MO

Mrs. Bonnie L. Richards Project 112/SHAD Lincoln, NE Director, Order of the Silver Rose

Name Position/Organization Residence
Mr. Dennis Oliver Korat Thailand Veteran ˜66-˜67 Toledo, OH
Life Member, Veterans of Foreign Wars Member, USARSUPTHAI@Yahoogroups.com
Member, KORATRTAFB@Yahoogroups.com

Mr. Henry Snyder Vietnam Veteran 70% Disabled AO Victim Davenport, FL
Home of the Agent Orange "Quilt of Tears"
Vice President, AO Victims & Widows Support Network, Inc.

Mrs. Ruth E. Roberts-Shepherd Wife of a Vietnam Veteran Summerville, SC
Vietnam Veterans of America
Councilperson, Lincolnville, SC Land & Zoning Commission
Special Investigator (Ret), Office of Special Investigations, Welfare Fraud

Mr. James M. Cripps Vietnam Veterans of America Nashville, TN
Chairperson, Tennessee Agent Orange Committee
Vietnam Veterans of America Chapter 953
Disabled American Veterans, Chapter 3
AMVETS, Chapter 1776

Mr. Elves A. King, III Director, Order of the Silver Rose Wichita Falls, TX
Vietnam Veteran
Brown and Blue Water Navy
Veterans of Foreign Wars
American Legion
Disabled American Veterans
Texas Association of Vietnam Veterans
MOPH, Submarine Veterans, Tin Can Sailors

Mr. William F Fiegel Vietnam Veteran Mt. Prospect, IL Life Member, Veterans of Foreign Wars,
Vietnam Veterans of America
Disabled American Veterans
Director, Order Of The Silver Rose
Jr Vice Commander 2007-2008, VFW
Membership Director, NMSOA
Wooden Ships-Iron Men
Member, PGR

Mr. Michael K. Regan CMSgt, USAF (Ret) Bedford, TX
NKP Thailand Veteran (˜72-˜73)
Vietnam Dog Handler's Association (VDHA)

Mrs. Laura Zolman Director, Order of the Silver Rose Mt Vernon, OH
Wife of a Vietnam Veteran

Mr. Bruce Jasinski MSgt USAF (Ret) Milford, KS
Udorn Thailand Veteran (70 - 71)
Life Member, Air Force Association (AFA)

Name Position/Organization Residence
Mr. Steve Burns Vietnam Veteran Thomasville, GA
Owner, VeteransInfo
Owner, PTSDandTBI
Owner, Christian Veterans and Wives
Owner, AO-Awareness-and-Info
Owner, Veteransvent

Mr. Michael Weldon Saigon Vietnam Veteran (1969) Udon Thani, Thailand
Korat (1966) & U-Tapao (1967) Thailand Vet

Mr. Lonnie Flowers TSgt, USAF (Ret) Bossier City, LA
NKP Thailand Veteran (1971, 73-75)
Life Member, Veterans of Foreign Wars
American Legion

Mr. Randall D. Thomas Sr. MSgt USAF (Ret) Louisville, KY NKP Thailand Veteran
American Legion
Member, Hadit.Com

Ms. Debra Nolan 100% Disabled Veteran Syracuse, NY

Mrs. Aletta Drummond Vietnam Veterans Wife Franklin, MO

Mrs. Maura Northup Vietnam Thailand Okinawa Veterans Widow Starke, FL

Mrs. Norma Capps Thailand Veteran Wife Puryear, TN
Mrs. Marianne Anderson Thailand/Vietnam Veterans Widow Washington, DC

Mrs. Linda Bowlin Thailand Veteran Wife Kingsport, TN

Mr. Wayne L. Anderson Camp Friendship (67-68) Thailand Veteran Cosmos, MN
Camp Samae San (69)
USARPTHAI/Thailand Laos Cambodia (TLC)

Mr. Dan Wilson Vietnam Veteran Ballwin, MO (Rat Patrol Man) Member, Veterans of Foreign Wars
Vietnam Veterans of America
American Legion

Mr. David Adkinson U-Tapao Thailand Veteran (71-72) Milton, FL
Eglin AFB, FL
Gulfport NGB, MS

Mr. James Pomeroy U-Tapao Thailand Veteran (71-72) Gladstone, MI
Okinawa Veteran (73-74)
Vietnam Dog Handler's Association (VDHA)


Name Position/Organization Residence
Mr. James Ziats Ubon Thailand Veteran (70-71) Greensboro, NC
Vietnam Dog Handler's Association (VDHA)

Mr. Tom Troxel Ubon Thailand Veteran (69-70) Twin Cities, MN
Vietnam Dog Handler's Association (VDHA)

Mr. Alejandro Tapiro, Jr. Korat Thailand Veteran (67) Honolulu, HI

Mr. James Mahaffey Ubon Thailand Veteran (71-72) Great Falls, MT

Mr. Sam Huff NKP Thailand Veteran (70-71) Roseburg, OR

Mr. Anthony M Lanzetta Korat Thailand Veteran (66-67) Port Charlotte, FL
Disabled American Veterans

Mr. David Galven U-Tapao Thailand Veteran (72-73) Ripon, CA

Mr. Grady Olmstead Udorn Thailand Veteran (70-71) Nashville, TN
AMVETS Chapter 1776

Mr. Jack Chapman Korat Thailand Veteran (70-71) Kermit, WV

Mr. James Scheider Sakon Nakon Thailand Veteran (70-71) Springfield, IL

Mr. James C. King Udorn Thailand Veteran ('70-'71) Golden, CO

Mr. Leonardo Gilardi lgelati@comcast.net Gloucester, MA

Mr. Steven Fetty sgfetty@aol.com Falls of Rough, KY
Mr. Rex Chapman BWN Orlando, FL

Mr. Phil Hunt Thailand Veteran

Mr. Paul Rops Udorn Thailand Veteran (67-68)

Mr. Michael Domanowski Thailand Veteran
Perry pnjlyn1@yahoo.com Munger, MI

Steve kentbird_47@yahoo.com KS

John Foster john707foster@yahoo.com

James Wallace strawberygrouper@yahoo.com

Sadly, more than a few Veterans from Thailand, Laos and Cambodia who were to be included in HR 6562 this year, have postponed, if not killed their own benefits. As you can see, this is very complicated stuff. Most of it will be unknown to Congress. These people as a group insist that the Blue Water Navy, Blue Sky Air Force, Fleet Marines, Coast Guard, and TLC Veterans not receive their benefit restoration next year, but wait until everyone gets their benefits, if it can get through Congress. I suspect there is language in the above that would prevent it from ever passing. Some of the stuff in the above is in other legislation that has already passed the House of Representatives and is now in the Senate. What a waste.

We trust that this will now put to rest the lies, half-truths, misstatements, denials, and secrecy occuring on another site. The Blue Water Navy folks are a great bunch of people and they certainly did not deserve this from their leadership. We do not believe that their leadership legitimately spoke for them, either, when committing this hijacking.

Nevertheless, at this point the Blue Water Navy, Blue Sky Air Force, Fleet Marines, Coast Guard and Thailand, Laos and Cambodia Veterans dreams of benefits next year are dead.

VNVets
"A Veteran's worst enemy is another Veteran" - Anonymous
”It is a stain on this nation's honor that the Department of Veterans Affairs has become a deadlier and more difficult adversary to the American veteran than any they have ever faced on a battlefield."-- VNVets

"The concept that Agent Orange, and its effects, stopped dead in its tracks at the shoreline is simply too illogical, and too ludicrous to accept. What does that say about the Bush Administration and his Department of Veterans Affairs?"--VNVets

"With malice toward none; with charity for all; with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in; to bind up the nation's wounds; to care for him who shall have borne the battle, and for his widow, and his orphan--to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace, among ourselves, and with all nations." --President Abraham Lincoln

"It follows then as certain as that night succeeds the day, that without a decisive naval force we can do nothing definitive, and with it, everything honorable and glorious."--President George Washington

Copyright © 2005-2008: VNVets Blog; All Rights Reserved.

22 comments:

  1. Anonymous13:38

    So John and Wally were out in front all right. Selling us out! I hope everyone now understands what this was really all about. It is more about those two, and probably others, making points, and maybe even some money. It had nothing whatever to do with what we need, just something for them. We are all a bunch of saps if we ever again believe anything that bunch has to say.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Anonymous15:37

    We can't blame the VA or Congress this time. HR 6562 would have put the DVA in its place, off our back and out of our wallets. It appears that some among us are in the DVA's hip pocket; they may even be DVA operatives. Sellouts like this have happened throught history. Usually when you have the few, without authority, making command decisions for the good of all the People it's usually about their own selfish desires, and their own dishonest reward. The ends always justify the means.
    So, ask yourself what's in it for the co-conspirators. We know that the rest of us are getting screwed!!

    ReplyDelete
  3. Well Jeff,
    You say you want everything out front and above board. Then why is it that when I posted a correction to your report on CLL turning into NHL that you didn't put it up. I gave you the link to the report that said CLL is now NHL. It was from Cambridge University and has been cited in numerous scientific reports about NHL.
    I then posted a comment that I had talked with Rep. Filners office and they all agreed that HR 6562 would not come up for a vote this year due to the elections and the short time frame left before they quit for the year. So if you are true to your word about keeping things out in the open, please post this.

    ReplyDelete
  4. I post everything. Don't know who you sent your comments to, but it was not to me. I have one comment of yours and this is the entire thing:

    "TJF4316 said...
    You are correct in saying that NHL is a presumptive disease recognized by the VA.
    How ever you need to know that the VA is holding ALL NHL cases under Haas. I am one of those cases right now. I have my case before the U.S. Court of Appeals and the they have issued a demand from the VA to respond within thirty days to explain why they are holding my case, when it is clear they should not be even by the VA's own rules.
    The best thing for anyone with a claim for NHL is to get a lawyer and have them file what is called "A Writ of Mandamus". They should file it with the court of appeals and skip the VA."

    I have no record of any posts of yours in the past 8 months, and certainly nothing that suggests you contacted Filner's office and got the word that HR 6562 would not pass this year. No idea when you think you sent that.

    We stand on our record of posting everything that is submitted, with one 3 notable exceptions in this calendar year: one was a spam in Russian, one was a spam in English advertising a sex site, and one was a single line of so much gibberish as to be unintelligible. Those are the only three rejected.

    That's what moderation is all about.

    Now, perhaps you tried to send those comments to me another way, rather than through the comment site. If that is the case, all I can say is I do not recall receiving them by email, either.

    If you have comments of substance then feel free to submit them using the comments link as you did here. If you wish to discuss your disgruntlement about some missing comments, then contact me using the email me link on the left sidebar. I will not post another discussion regarding your complaint as posted above.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Anonymous16:14

    Well, I certainly hope that the tag alongers are happy with what
    they have done to disrupt what so may of us have worked so
    hard to get accomplished. I discovered the VNVETS webb
    site quite some time ago and have been ardent in watching
    what the group has done and achived. The tag alongers, if
    they had been that concerned would have found the VNVETS
    site along time ago and joined in to accomplish what the
    VNVETS have done. I, along with many of us are trying to
    survive each and everyday with our illnesses. Now I guess
    we will have to go to our graves so the tag alongers can have
    their way. I hope God can forgive them for not approaching
    this differently. Deeply saddened. Dennis Myers

    ReplyDelete
  6. Anonymous00:31

    The tag-alongers didn't do it. Your own "leaders" did it to you. If there is any justice in this world those guys will get their just rewards someday.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Anonymous01:02

    The fighting, name calling, derogatory remarks,(etc) that is occurring is not helping anyone and it sure isn't going to get a bill passed.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Anonymous01:14

    we are posting a comment that Wally Ward made in response to one made here.

    Anonymous said...
    So John and Wally were out in front all right. Selling us out! I hope everyone now understands what this was really all about. It is more about those two, and probably others, making points, and maybe even some money. It had nothing whatever to do with what we need, just something for them. We are all a bunch of saps if we ever again believe anything that bunch has to say.
    13:38

    My response to this poster is made here because I am banned at VNVETS:

    You are certainly welcome to your opinion, but you should not make public statements which you cannot back up. I don’t what “points” you are discussing or what good they would do for anyone. I also don’t know where any money would come from. In the last six months, I have spent a considerable amount from my own pocket to support BWN veterans. I challenge anyone to step forward and say that have spent more time than I have during the last six months in support of veterans.

    This is to inform those who are not aware; HR 6562 would not have covered Thailand, Cambodia or Laos in its prior form. I was told this by the Staff Director of the Subcommittee on Disability Assistance and Memorial Affairs who were working on this legislation.

    Speculation that HR 6562 would have sailed through the Senate in the 110th Congress is pure fantasy. All I can say is do your homework and find out what is going on.

    Finally, I leave you with this bit of information. Jeff Davis has turned VNVETS into a hate mail site for Blue Water Navy Vietnam Veterans Association. This is not productive, nor does it achieve our goal.
    I am like anyone of you, I have no guarantee that I will wake up each morning, I am often in a lot of pain, but I work as hard as I possibly can each day to support veterans. If this is a sellout, somebody please explain it to me.

    ReplyDelete
  9. First, only spammers are moderated, and prevented from posting. It is what comment moderation is all about. So, no Wally, you are not "banned" from making legitimate comments on VNVets. As you can see, your comments have indeed been posted here...by me.

    I'll challenge your time spent, Wally. You are not the only one who works at this morning through night. There is nothing special about that, it is simply required to get the job done. You're no martyr. You just make a point of letting everyone know about it. And it isn't so mch how long you work, it is what you accomplish.

    As far as Filner not including TLC Veterans, we broke the story here on August 10 that he would indeed include Veterans of Thailand, Laos, Cambodia. Apparently you missed that.

    And HR 6562? While you and JR were working so hard in secret with folks who are NOT Blue Water Navy to sink HR 6562, our readers here have been out banging on doors while Congress was at home on recess, getting support for the HR 6562 that Filner introduced. They have added sixteen more Representatives to co-sponsor in the House, and fourteen Senators, who are willing to co-sponsor HR 6562 in the Senate for concurrent consideration. So, Wally, as you can see, we HAVE been doing our homework, literally, rather than off some place in secret sinking the hopes of Bliue Water sailors.

    Chairman Filner would not have introduced HR 6562 unless he felt it would stand a chance of passage this term.

    As far as your final diatribe against me, well, you reap what you sow. It is not I who has turned this comment section into hate mail. It is your actions and that of JR who have done that. The commenters are members of your own organization. They feel betrayed, and rightfully so.

    What is not productive is the secrecy, the lies, the cover up [you still have not allowed anyone to post the fruits of your dark labors on your own forum! You are blocking comments by posters who disagree with you still.]

    Well, Wally, if you don't recognize your own sellout, then I have a great deal of pity for you as a human being. You sold out your own folks. You even cost yourself a shot at getting your own benefits sooner, and for no reason.

    TLC Vets were to be included. Any one in Filner's office or in Congressman Hall's office will tell you that a bill to include Guam, Korea, the Philippine, and the rest of the locations where AO was used affecting Veterans around the world will take a very long time to advance. And it won't see the inside of Congress until four to six months from now or later! And that is how soon it will be introduced!

    It is the expanded version, the one that has JR's and your signatures as the very first two on it, that will cost Blue Water Veterans, Blue Sky Veterans, Fleet Marine, and Coast Guard Veterans, and even the same Thailand, Laos and Cambodia Veterans who signed that expansion package with you a shot at benefits sometime next year. Now, as a result of your work, your very hard, long hours of work, those Veterans will have to wait many, many long months, perhaps years before they will see any benefits, if they ever see them at all.

    Now, Wally, you see you have had your comment posted here.

    Will you have the guts to post mine on your forum?

    ReplyDelete
  10. Jeff,
    You said that you checked and you have never found anything from me.
    How can that be when you quoted what I said about my case going before the U. S. Court of Appeals.You even commented on it. I did send the other comments to you and not some one else unless your comments section sends it to the trash.

    ReplyDelete
  11. To the commenter who posted the following:

    "The fighting, name calling, derogatory remarks,(etc) that is occurring is not helping anyone and it sure isn't going to get a bill passed."

    Ordinarily I would agree with you, and I have hesitated to bring this stuff out in the open for a long time. But when I found out that dissent on their own forum was being silenced or met with ridicule, I decided to expose what was going on. They have taken steps to heavily moderate what gets posted over there, blocking some entirely, and killing off posts critical of their actions before they ever see the light of day. In addition to the secrecy of their work on another forum, also heavily protected from anyone who would dissent, they have fought very hard to protect their actions from the very people they purport to represent. They have never posted the contents of their expansion package as we have posted above. Most of their own members were not aware of it until we posted it here.

    So, I have decided that if they are not permitted to speak on their own forum, they certainly shall be permitted to do so here. The Blue Water Navy sailors are great bunch and deserve to be heard. When their leadership has come here we have posted their comments, and then pointed out the lies they told here.

    We would suggest that rather than posting here, their leadership should oopenly post their explanations on their own forum, a place where they have refused to do so candidly for well over a week. They should also stop blocking content from their own people. Dissent is healthy. It strengthens the right and weakens the wrong.

    Such leadership deserves to be discredited, and separated from the cause of the group.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Jeff,
    I just checked under NHL on your site and my post is still there about it being before the court. You even commented on it saying
    Thanks, for this excellent piece of advice.
    Just wanted to make sure you saw that

    ReplyDelete
  13. Terry Fithian,

    All I can say is there were no other comments from you that came ion on this blog.

    The one I posted in response to your first comment above, is the only one I received from you, and is the one you refer to. Yes, I did quote it, and gave attribution to the anonymous poster who sent it as a comment.

    No reason to beat a dead horse, but that is all there is to it. I can't speak to any other comments since I never saw them.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Terry Fithian,

    Asked and answered already! Take it to email if you want further discussion. I already acknowledged that your comment was included in a post, and in fact included your comment in that response earlier.

    If you posted other comments, you did so under a different alias. I have all the comments posted here going back two and a half years. But I am not going to waste my time going through all the anonymous comments, nor will I waste any more timne addressing your complaints.

    You would be better served demanding answers from your group's own leadership than coming after me with bogus claims.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Once again we are posting Wally's comments even though he knows full well he can post his own here. But he feels more important where he is.

    My response to Jeff Davis:

    Jeff, if you could challenge my time spent, you would know what is going on in Chairman Filner’s office. HR 6562 was not slated to cover Thailand, Cambodia and Laos according to Filner’s Staff Director and Counsel.
    I don’t censor or prohibit anyone from posting on BNVVA forum. Members are allowed to say what they think, but they must also expect responses. I did prohibit you from rejoining the forum. This was due to your past activity.

    My accomplishments at BWNVVA can be judged by those who have witnessed them.

    You give BWNVVA too much credit when you state that the management convinced Filner to hijack HR 6562 and change it. That is something only Filner can do. The alliance of senior veteran advocates who asked BWNVVA to submit their requests would have done so any way. Please note that these same advocates have carried our BWNVVA message to Congress many times before.

    You have effectively used the Chicken Little; the Sky is Falling tactic to gain some notoriety. Fact is, you don’t know what or how things will play out. You mention common sense in your response, but common sense is not one of your strong suites. Don’t continue to put words in the mouths of Filner and his staff. They may come back to bite you!



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Wally

    ReplyDelete
  16. Oh Wally, you are so self-aggrandizing its pitiful to watch.

    You still can't accept that Filner stated unequivocally that he would include TLC Veterans in HR 6562, and did so in writing. If you are so in touch with Filner's staff you would know it. Heck, the gentleman who got the letter tried for hours to get it to your attention. He turned to VNVets when that didn't happen.

    Sadly, your accomplishments at BWNVVA, and those of others in the leadership there, will be judged by the sell-out you performed as proven by the expansion pack in the post above.

    As far as blocking people, I am not the only one. Others have tried to post the expansion pack I posted in the entry above over on the BWN Forum. They, too have been blocked. So your words about not censoring anyone ring very hollow.

    Why have you not allowed the members of BWNVVA to see your handiwork? Why have you not posted the expansion pack on your forum for all the members to see and judge for themselves?

    This is my last response to you Wally, I really do not enjoy wrestling with pigs. You get awfully dirty and the pigs love it.

    You will of course feel free to post whatever screed you wish but you will never, ever, escape the truth about what you two did to BWN Veterans.

    I am closing off comments on this post now.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Comment posting on this post is now closed.

    ReplyDelete
  18. steve11:00

    I am a vetnam vet and I would like to know who I can talk to other then my local VA outlet on what to do about a clame that I put in ,but never hear about> Thank u Steve

    ReplyDelete
  19. Steve,

    Coments are closed on this post, but please contact me using the "email me" link right above the Yahoo sign on the left sidebar. I can then get you the information you need.

    Jeff

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  20. Anonymous11:44

    Well, I'm certainly glad to see that there are "....no pissing contests going on here."!!
    For the people who worked to "improve" HR 6562...thereby delaying if not killing it; why didn't you ask your membership how they felt before the unilateral action?? I think you were a bit high-handed to say the least. IF the TLC people were, indeed, not covered, it would have been simple enough for Mr Filner to offer up an ammendment during the bills debate period. I think you did us all a major disservice when you and your small group of cohorts decided what was best for all. I won't call you what I think you are but, let me say that when you get home, I hope your Mother runs up and bites you on the leg...get it?

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  21. Steve,

    I need your email address to contact you.

    Jeff

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  22. Please, now, this is it.



    NO MORE COMMENTS ON THIS POST!

    IF YOU ARE A MEMBER OF THE BWN FORUM, EXPRESS YOUR OPINIONS THERE, PLEASE.

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